Curse

Riot Narita · Jun 05, 2009, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Here's a PvE build I run with most of the time these days. I haven't seen it on PvX or in this forum (correct me if I'm wrong), so I thought I'd post it. It's been working extremely well for me, but comments, suggestions, and criticism are welcome.

[Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Heket's Rampage][Cruel Spear][Optional][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Summon Ruby Djinn][Comfort Pet][Charm Animal]

Expertise=8+1
BeastMastery=10+1+1
SpearMastery=9
Command=9

Description
It's a spear-chucker ranger. Master of Damage shows you can sustain about 95 damage/sec by yourself indefinitely, in "normal" use... or 105 damage/sec with "optimal" positioning (ie. with pet and assassin in your Battle Standard too). That's with max rep titles, ymmv. Add buffs from heroes or team-mates (weapon spells, cracked enemy armor, barbs etc) and the damage is bonkers. Your refire rate is much higher than a bow.

It's more "survivable" due to extra life and armour from carrying a shield, and also the pet and summoned allies help keep aggro and damage away from you and your party. The assassin in particular can be used to draw the initial aggro and cause enemies to waste their first round of skills.

The damage is good, but you're also able to carry party support skills - Battle Standard and a Command/Motivation skill in the optional slot.

Equipment
A zealous spear is essential to the build. A Ranger's natural energy regen is enough to feed constant use of the Standard of Honor and Heket's Rampage - but beyond that, using your summons etc may cause energy problems. Zealous spear + Heket's Rampage gives you the equivelent of 5 pips of energy regen, which is plenty (as long as you are hitting things).

I use a Command shield, so I get +16 armour, +30 life and +10 armor vs one element (I carry different shields on switch for different elements). Then I use a Command skill in the optional slot. A Motivation shield could be used instead - but of course then you'd put points into Motivation, and put a Motivation skill in the optional slot.

I'm using a full "radiant" set of armor, with attunement runes in every spare slot. Not strictly necessary, but extra energy doesn't hurt... and a ranger will probably have such armor already so no need to buy anything specially for this build.

Skills
The Standard of Honor can be kept up almost permanently, and boosts damage a LOT for the Ranger, the Djinn, and anything else that stands in it.

Heket's Rampage means you throw 1 spear per second, and it can be kept up almost permanently - you only have one attack skill that might cancel it, and you won't be spamming that. Combined with the Standard of Honor, you get a BIG boost to damage output from this. Also helps pile on the attacks when a target is dazed.

You can swap to a different spear attack, as long as it is adrenaline-based and not "spammable". [[Spear of Redemption] is great for instantly removing Blind. [[Stunning Strike] applies Dazing.

I choose the Ruby Djinn summon because it has [[Immolate], which gives the highest DPS of the Asura summons against single targets - 75 damage when it's standing in my ward, 3 seconds of burning, and recharges in 3 secs. The other Asura summons have their uses - choose what you like. Unfortunately you have to play Polymock to get the summoning skills... but it's easy if you fork over the money for a Ruby Djinn Polymock piece.

In the optional slot I usually take a Command skill, since I have points in Command for my Command shields eg. [["Never Surrender!"], [["Stand Your Ground!"] or [["Fall Back!"].

Attributes
Keep Beast Mastery at 12 so your pet does a decent bit of damage, but more importantly: to reduce the deactivation time of your skills when it dies. Keep Spear at 9 for weapon req's, and Command/Motivation at 9 for your shield req's.

High Asura and Vanguard rep titles obviously help.

Usage
Cast Asura summon before a fight. Send in the assassin to draw initial aggro - but against healers, maybe wait until they have a hex or condition so the assassin will knock them down (interrupt them). Cast Battle Standard, Heket's Rampage... and pew pew pew on auto-attack.

Your spear attack skill will cancel Heket's Rampage, so time your use of Cruel Spear - ideally use it just before recasting Heket's.

Recast Heket's, Battle Standard, Assassin and Summon on recharge. Use your optional skill slot as appropriate.

Rez your pet immediately if it dies - it draws aggro, keeps up pressure, and if it dies again within about 20secs of rez you DON'T get your skills deactivated again!

I carry rez scrolls for use on dead party members.

wire dawg · Jun 05, 2009, 09:50 AM // 09:50

er uh what is this build for?

Riot Narita · Jun 05, 2009, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by wire dawg

er uh what is this build for?

Err.. playing Guild Wars PvE? Kill stuff, and don't die?

It does pretty high damage for a ranger, the damage is sustainable indefinitely... it's more survivable than a bow ranger (extra armour, extra life, 3 meat shields)... and it carries some some party support.

Joseph Spiritmaster · Jun 05, 2009, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Well you could instead of Lightning Reflexes, adds to the survive ability and instead for an option slot put in dwarven stability, to make it long, most battles dont last very long anyways....

Riot Narita · Jun 05, 2009, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Spiritmaster

Well you could instead of Lightning Reflexes, adds to the survive ability and instead for an option slot put in dwarven stability, to make it long, most battles dont last very long anyways....

Mm. Lightning Reflexes would add blocking, and wouldn't get cancelled when I use my spear skill. So it might be useful in my optional slot (whether to bring it would depend on what heroes/team members are present, and whether a command/motivation skill brings more to the team).

LR couldn't replace Heket's Rampage completely though - because the constant 33% IAS from Heket's with a zealous spear is my energy management as well as a damage boost.

Dwarven Stability wouldn't really be worth it. There'd still be at least 10secs downtime for lightning reflexes... and also, I'm already carrying 3 PvE skills. I'd have to drop one to add Dwarven Stability, and I think I'd lose more than I gained by doing that (the build is already pretty resilient).

Orange Milk · Jun 05, 2009, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I give the build a 2 on a scale of 0-100

You have Full Radiant armor AND a Zealous spear? Really? Do you know what Expertise does?

You have 1 attack skill, that you can't/don't use for fear of cancelling your IAS and no pet damage buffs, other than EBSoH, if he happens to be in it. Same with the sin, You need to get in close to battle for the Sin and pet to get buffed too, so why go spear with Ranged attacks when your up so close?

Quite frankly the Ranger and Pet in this build are rather useless and not needed, everything is done by the Sin and Ruby Djinn.

You constantly mention "The rest of the team" yet title the build "One Man Army" perhaps if you mentioned what the rest of the party was I would understand that perhaps your build isn't 99% failure.

Never Rampage Alone is a great skill, it's sad you don't use it.

9 points in Command to just get +8 armor is a waste, the 3 command skills you said you use for the "optional" slot really don't get used that much do they? So why bother? If your using "Never Surrender" alot then you need to do something else to the team build and not depend on that skill. Remove points from Command all together, buff up Expertise since you have energy management issues, though thats mainly due to your bar that is chocked full of skills that are NOT effected by Expertise.

The whole build depends on everything being inside EBSoH, so that should work well for AI mobs that carry AoE skills.

Needs work, can be tweaked/revamped to be a usefull build.

Riot Narita · Jun 05, 2009, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

I give the build a 2 on a scale of 0-100

You have Full Radiant armor AND a Zealous spear? Really? Do you know what Expertise does?

Of course I do. That's why I use a zealous spear - because I know that Expertise doesn't help regen energy any faster, and it won't help my PvE skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

You have 1 attack skill, that you can't/don't use for fear of cancelling your IAS

No, I have one attack skill that I use appropriately, rather than button mashing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

and no pet damage buffs, other than EBSoH, if he happens to be in in.

I don't see any need for pet buffs. Have you tried this build in PvE and seen the damage it does? Did you see what my Master of Damage results were? This build does plenty of damage, the pet soaks up damage and is endlessly expendible/rezzable. Under certain circumstances, I could put a pet skill in the optional slot... but I've really felt no need so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Same with the sin, You need to get in close to battle for the Sin and pet to get buffed too

Did you notice I gave two figures for Master of Damage results? About 95 dmg/sec for "normal" use. "Normal" means, I attack from range and the pet and assassin won't be in the Battle Standard.

I get about 105 dmg/sec if I move up and plant the Standard close to the target, where the pet and assassin are (But I usually only do this for a troublesome monk boss, or to help melee party members or minions).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

so why go spear with Ranged attacks when your up so close?

I am not normally up close, see above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Quite frankly the Ranger and Pet in this build are rather useless and not needed, everything is done by the Sin and Ruby Djinn.

Err... no ranger = no pet, no Sin and no Djinn. Are you going to tell me Minion Masters are also useless because everything is done by the minions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

You constantly mention "The rest of the team" yet title the build "One Man Army" perhaps if you mentioned what the rest of the party was I would understand that perhaps your build isn't 99% failure.

99% failure? That seems pretty harsh. 99% failure would surely mean this build doesn't work at all - and yet I have used it to beat so many HM missions, VQ's etc with ease. It's worked very well for me, for a long time. It's also a refreshing change from cookie cutter Ranger builds. You really think it is that bad? I honestly don't understand your reasoning.

The build works well as a non-squishy damage dealer, spreads incoming damage among the expendible summons and pet, and brings some party support. It's general purpose, fits with most parties. I use it all the time in guild teams, pugs and H/H. It doesn't need any particular support from the other team members to function as intended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Never Rampage Alone is a great skill, it's sad you don't use it.

There are many great skills. It is indeed sad that I can't put them all on my bar at once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

9 points in Command to just get +8 armor is a waste,

I don't particularly need the attribute points anywhere else in this build, so why not put them into Command or Motivation and take some party support skills?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

the 3 command skills you said you use for the "optional" slot really don't get used that much do they?

Actually I do use them - all the time. Especially "Fall back!" for moving parties around quicker, and "Stand your ground!". I could also put other Command or Motivation skills in that slot, or take a pet skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

So why bother? If your using "Never Surrender" alot then you need to do something else to the team build and not depend on that skill.

That particular skill is handy for areas that have heavy party-wide degen. For other places, I'll take a different skill. The point is, there is a free slot to take whatever is most appropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Remove points from Command all together, buff up Expertise since you have energy management issues, though thats mainly due to your bar that is chocked full of skills that are NOT effected by Expertise.

Err... I DON'T have energy management issues. Heket's Rampge + Zealous spear = no energy management issues.

And you said it yourself, buffing Expertise doesn't help this build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

The whole build depends on everything being inside EBSoH

Wrong - see above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

so that should work well for AI mobs that carry AoE skills.

Wrong - see above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Needs work, can be tweaked/revamped to be a usefull build.

Suggestions are welcome, though I don't really understand why you think this is such a bad build as it is.

Orange Milk · Jun 05, 2009, 03:26 PM // 15:26

You have full radiant armor and a zealous spear, and 9 (total) points in Expertise.

You claim you know what Expertise does. Rangers LIVE off of Expertise and you've loaded you bar with skills not effected by Expertise. Your doing it wrong.

You have a random 9 points in command because "you really don't need them anywhere else" I'd say remove them and add them to Expertise since you apparently need every single bit of energy you can get, but with your skill selection it won't matter. Add the ponts to BM AND a skill from BM for more damage. Add the points to Spear for more damage.

If the build works at it "optimal" level with you, your pet and the sin and the Djinn in the EBSoH then why in the name of all that is stupid would you not always run it that way? Why do you "normally" stand back with it? Thats like only casting Aegis(PvE Version) when no one slse is around. You can't talk about how great a damage buff it is if your not really using it properly.

Pets deal VERY minimal damage when not buffed or not in an IAS. Tis true.

Your better off dropping the Spear, dropping the points in Command, placing those points in MArksmanship, drop Hekets and the Spear Attack and run Rapid Fire With Prepeared shot as your elite, then place Savage shot in the optional spot.

You'll attack at the same speed with no worries (Using a short bow)as to caneling your IAS you'll maintain energy with Prep shot and Savage is well, a great skill. You'll deal much more damage in the long run. Tis True.

marks 10ish+1+1(or be a man and use a Sup rune, or atleast a Major)
Exp 11+1
BM all the rest +1

If you seriously want the unbuffed mediocre Pet and the Pve Skills to stay then the above is what I would do. You lose some armor but hey your SUPERLEETHAXORZPVEGODTYPEPERSON so that shouldnt be an issue for you.

Also, MM's do more than just create Minions, all your build does is create PvE skills, oh and every so often have all your skills diabled when your pet dies. Tis True.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hissy
It doesn't need any particular support from the other team members to function as intended

If the intent is to fail, then you are correct. Though IF team members were to lets say, Heal you and your pet and provid Buffs like

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hissy
Add buffs from heroes or team-mates (weapon spells, cracked enemy armor, barbs etc) and the damage is bonkers

Wait these sentences contradict each other, huh, thats weird.

vamp08 · Jun 05, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

I much prefer the "Spear-Jacked Warrior" build from GWGamependium. It sure does wreck in PvE and piss off sins and casters in PvP.

Riot Narita · Jun 05, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

You have full radiant armor and a zealous spear, and 9 (total) points in Expertise.

You claim you know what Expertise does. Rangers LIVE off of Expertise and you've loaded you bar with skills not effected by Expertise. Your doing it wrong.

I'm doing it "wrong"? So you think Rangers are not allowed to use any skills that are unaffected by Expertise? Calling all rangers! Stop using PvE skills, you're doing it wrong! Stop using Splinter Weapon! Stop using Conjures! etc etc.

But seriously - if the build works well, in spite of not taking advantage of Expertise... then it must be "right". And it DOES work well in my experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

You have a random 9 points in command because "you really don't need them anywhere else" I'd say remove them and add them to Expertise since you apparently need every single bit of energy you can get, but with your skill selection it won't matter.

Again you tell me to put more points in Expertise, and again you tell me that doing so won't help. What's up with that?

And again you tell me I have energy problems when I do not. Heket's Rampage and Zealous spear takes care of my energy needs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Add the ponts to BM AND a skill from BM for more damage. Add the points to Spear for more damage.

Now that makes sense. And the build can easily be adjusted to accommodate that. However I usually choose a compromise (as in the OP) that lets me take some support instead - the build already puts out high sustained damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

If the build works at it "optimal" level with you, your pet and the sin and the Djinn in the EBSoH then why in the name of all that is stupid would you not always run it that way? Why do you "normally" stand back with it? Thats like only casting Aegis(PvE Version) when no one slse is around. You can't talk about how great a damage buff it is if your not really using it properly.

You're really missing the point. Do you understand the benefit of Minion Masters and their minions to divert damage away from the party? Well it's the same thing. I want to send the disposable summons and pet (pet usually survives pretty well though) forward, to draw aggro and soak up damage... while I stand back going pew pew pew with my ranged attacks. And I don't want to waste time chasing enemies.

Look at the Master of Damage numbers again - average 95 dmg/sec over 3 minutes if I stand back, 105 if I move forward. Only 10dps difference - so I don't feel any great need to move forward most of the time, since the increase in damage output is not that great. I usually only bother when the party is struggling against strong healers, and I'll try to drop the standard where the party's other damage dealers or minions are - to try and overwhelm the enemy healing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Pets deal VERY minimal damage when not buffed or not in an IAS. Tis true.

True, but as above - part of the benefit is in using them as meat shields. There is an optional slot available in the build - if more damage is needed, or more pet survivability... you can add a pet skill, the build is flexible enough to allow that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Your better off dropping the Spear, dropping the points in Command, placing those points in MArksmanship, drop Hekets and the Spear Attack and run Rapid Fire With Prepeared shot as your elite, then place Savage shot in the optional spot.

I've run builds like that, in fact I've run a huge variety of Ranger builds over the years. But I find this one more effective than most, very easy to use, and somewhat flexible to suit different areas. But also, bows mean less armour, less life, and slower refire rates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

You'll attack at the same speed

Actually, no - because spears inherently have a faster refire rate than bows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

If the intent is to fail, then you are correct. Though IF team members were to lets say, Heal you and your pet and provid Buffs like

Uh, when do we NOT take healers in our parties? Do you think I need to add healing to my build? The build is already very survivable, due to the extra armour and life, plus the disposable summons and pet taking damage instead of me and the party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Wait these sentences contradict each other, huh, thats weird.

No contradiction at all. The build puts out excellent damage. And of course it puts out even more if the rest of the party buffs you, or debuffs the enemy - and any buffs are very effective due to using a spear and 33% IAS. Where's the contradiction?

The build does sustainable high damage, is very survivable, diverts damage away from the party, and can bring some party support. What functionality do you think is lacking there? I'm afraid telling me that I'm "just not doing it right" isn't enough.

You've said you think the damage could be better, or the pet could be buffed - OK, you can use the optional slot to improve that. (I personally choose not to, because it seems pretty good to me as it is. How many other ranger builds can sustain 95 dmg/sec indefinitely?). You can also choose to move forward and drop your Battle Standard where your pet and assassin are. I choose not to, because the benefit is not so great compared to the downside of putting myself in harms way and spending time moving when I could be throwing spears instead.

What else?

gremlin · Jun 05, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Orange Milk

Doing it wrong !

Oh I know what you mean, expertise is the energy management attribute for Rangers but if you can do the same thing in another way why worry ?

I often run my ranger with all the points in Marksmanship and wilderness survival with no problems at all, despite being told its wrong.

Orange Milk · Jun 05, 2009, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Reading Comprehension is FTW, try it sometime.

I never said "Don't ever use skills that are not effected by Expertise" They are fine to use, just not 75% of a bar of them. Not using expertise effectivly gimps yourself, think of what would happen if a Warrior didn't use strength, or a Monk no Divine Favor? Sure there are some Solo builds out there that don't rely on it but this is not, depsite the "One-Man army" title, a solo build.

Quote:

I'd say remove them and add them to Expertise since you apparently need every single bit of energy you can get, but with your skill selection it won't matter

Now for the "reading comprehension" part, "I'd" as in "I would" followed by the",but" means I'm not telling you to put the points in expertise, though I would normally tell someone to do that. Following the "but" I explain that with your skill set that would be pointless.

Because of your build you are "Locked" into using a Zealous Spear and Heket's, AKA gimped, you can not take advantage of attack skills for fear of ending your stance and your energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hissy
And I don't want to waste time chasing enemies

Now this I do not understand, if you going to stand back from the action and chuck spears you will be chasing enemys when they move out of your range. If youget up int he action, where EBSoH will be more effective they would have to kite further to get out of your range meaning that they will typically stay in your range.

So you have 2 summons a pet and minions as meat shields, do you think that is enough? Maybe you can get a couple Permas to join up and tank too. So what is the pet is a "meatshiled" may as well make it an effective one (So your skills don't get set to recharge) and buff the pet up. i.e. Armor, IAS, damage ect.

Quote:

How many other ranger builds can sustain 95 dmg/sec indefinitely?).

Your 95~DPS on master of damage, is that Just you alone on your Ranger with your pet and this bar, or is your entire 8 man party there?

Quote:

But also, bows mean less armour, less life, and slower refire rates.

So what you have an entire army of meat shields you should be safe. But then you don't use majors or Sups as runes so my guess is you play in fear of dying. So much in fear that you waste 9 points in Command just to gain 8 armor just in case something slips by the meatsheild army.

Quote:

Actually, no - because spears inherently have a faster refire rate than bows

at 33% IAS spear is 1.00 secs to the 1.33 of a short bow, OHNOES!!! besides you'll inherintly have better energy management with the Bow build and will not be dependant on the IAS and Zealous String for energy.

Quote:

What else?

Here is what's wrong with your bar

1) Damage could be better (as I stated)
2) Attributes could be spent better (as I stated)
3) EBSoH could be used moe effectivly (As I stated)
4) Runes could be improved for optimalisation
5) Build is too dependant on a Sub Par IAS
6) Stop ignoring Expertise, it is what makes a Ranger a "Jack of All Trades"
7) Your 1 and only Spear attack skill is not very effective, it has a slow recharge and fails to take advantage of Expertise, yes I know you like the long recharge because of how your IAS works, so see #5 again. It takes you 7 seconds of attacking an enemy before the skill is charged, it should be dead by then.
8) Pet Damage is weak, buff it or drop it.
9) Too many High energy PvE skills,
10) Like I said, the Ranger does nothing and the pet does less, ANY proffesion can run those 3 PvE only skills on their bar, adding a slow recharging attack gimped attributes and a weak pet doesn't make it any good. Neither does adding a shield for "Survivability" you are bringing Healers AND standignway out of the way afterall.

If yo want the spear, fine, add RaO buff up your EXPERTISE Atts and add Blazing spear and a pet buff. Like this

1) OMGHAXZORSLEETPVESKILL
2)OMGHAXZORSLEETPVESKILL
3)OMGHAXZORSLEETPVESKILL
4) RaO
5) Blazing Spear/Barbed Spear/Holy Spear
6) Otyughs Cry/Scavengers Strike
7) Comfort Pet
8) Charm Pet

13 Bm total
14 Exp total
9 spear
will require the use of something other than minor runes OHNOES!!

Free free to use the same Armor and Zealous spear if you want, I could care less.

Not the greatest, but I pulled it out of my ass sitting here, but it is certainly better that the thing you've posted, damagewise.

iToasterHD · Jun 05, 2009, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Orange Milk, I have seen you on this forum often posting very good thoughts and builds, my question is then do you have a suggestion for a spear/pet build? Arguing with him will not get anywhere and I could use the help. I have been running

Spear of Lightning
Blazing Spear
Merciless Spear
Never Rampage Alone
Poisonous Bite
Otyugh's Cry
Heal As One
Charm Animal

15 Beast
9 Expertise
12 Spear

*EDIT* Build is for PvE, I don't use PvE Skills

Orange Milk · Jun 05, 2009, 08:07 PM // 20:07

@iToasterHD

I must agree that there are time where I drop all PvE skills to go old school, though "Never Rampage Alone" is a PvE Skill.

Anyway I like the build

with BM at 15 I would take [Predator's Pounce] over Poisonbite though, +35 damage and +50hp for your pet every 5sec is hard to argue with at that spec.

Yourbuild has High Damage, good pet buffs and a solid IAS, it takes advantage of Expertise with sapamble Attack skills aswell as fast adrenilin gain via the IAS. YOur going to deal solid damage even when not in the IAS due to fast rechargeing energy skills (if PPounce is swaped in) and your not locked into haveing to use a Zealous spear, though one would still be handy in another weapon set. You'll spend more time doing rather than just being there like in Hissy's build.

Is the energy goodwith just 9 in Expertise? If it is, great, if not grab [Scavenger's Strike] an use that right after you fire a Blazing spear.

Your not into PvE skills so much, but I love "Great Dwarf Weapon"on my pet in combo with Barbed/Blazing spear and scavengers to maintain the enegry useage and the Never Rampage Alone IAS.

iToasterHD · Jun 05, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

I have been struggling to find things for the Ranger to do. A lot of people toss around the term "Jack of all trades" and maybe I am still not getting this game, but I often feel useless on the battle field. I am pretty much a walking rez shrine with rebirth. I have been trying a number of builds to find my place with no such luck.

Riot Narita · Jun 05, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Reading Comprehension is FTW, try it sometime.

I never said "Don't ever use skills that are not effected by Expertise" They are fine to use, just not 75% of a bar of them.

Who says? You? What is your limit, exactly? Is 75% the point at which you say to yourself "oh no, I can't add that skill because that would take me over the 75% limit of skills that do not benefit from Expertise". Ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Not using expertise effectivly gimps yourself, think of what would happen if a Warrior didn't use strength, or a Monk no Divine Favor? Sure there are some Solo builds out there that don't rely on it but this is not, depsite the "One-Man army" title, a solo build

You really are being narrow minded, and ignoring the facts staring you in the face. I have a build that is highly survivable, pumps out 95 dmg/sec indefinitely, supports the party... and you're calling it "gimped". Simply because I don't use Expertise the way you think I should.

I look at results to judge a build - not whether it follows some made-up "rule".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Because of your build you are "Locked" into using a Zealous Spear and Heket's, AKA gimped, you can not take advantage of attack skills for fear of ending your stance and your energy.

Why do you see that as a problem? Does my damage suffer because I don't spam an attack skill? No.

Do you also call a Prepared Shot ranger "gimped" because he has to use a preparation and prepared shot for energy, instead of just pumping Expertise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Now this I do not understand, if you going to stand back from the action and chuck spears you will be chasing enemys when they move out of your range. If youget up int he action, where EBSoH will be more effective they would have to kite further to get out of your range meaning that they will typically stay in your range.

What are you saying? Should Ele's who use EBSoH rush up to melee range, just in case the enemies kite?

Enemies are always capable of kiting out of range, no matter where you drop the Battle Standard. So I drop it where I can hit enemies from range. More often than not, enemies move into range than out of it. Besides, I can always switch targets if I have to, or recast the next Battle Standard in a new location.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

So you have 2 summons a pet and minions as meat shields, do you think that is enough?

Yes. It's working very well thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Maybe you can get a couple Permas to join up and tank too. So what is the pet is a "meatshiled" may as well make it an effective one (So your skills don't get set to recharge) and buff the pet up. i.e. Armor, IAS, damage ect.

I could buff the pet using the optional slot, if it was needed. But I find that it is not needed most of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Your 95~DPS on master of damage, is that Just you alone on your Ranger with your pet and this bar, or is your entire 8 man party there?

Jeez. Isn't it obvious from I've been saying? It's just me, with my pet, and this skill bar. No other party members.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

So what you have an entire army of meat shields you should be safe. But then you don't use majors or Sups as runes so my guess is you play in fear of dying. So much in fear that you waste 9 points in Command just to gain 8 armor just in case something slips by the meatsheild army.

Your point? Personally, I think it's good to stay alive. How about you? Do you play with 60% DP for the challenge?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

at 33% IAS spear is 1.00 secs to the 1.33 of a short bow, OHNOES!!! besides you'll inherintly have better energy management with the Bow build and will not be dependant on the IAS and Zealous String for energy.

Your point? My spears hit 4 times in 4 seconds, your bow hits 3 times. Spear gets 33% more attacks than bow. Why do you think using IAS and Zealous spear is such a crime? It works, so what's the problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

1) Damage could be better (as I stated)
2) Attributes could be spent better (as I stated)
3) EBSoH could be used moe effectivly (As I stated)
4) Runes could be improved for optimalisation
5) Build is too dependant on a Sub Par IAS
6) Stop ignoring Expertise, it is what makes a Ranger a "Jack of All Trades"
7) Your 1 and only Spear attack skill is not very effective, it has a slow recharge and fails to take advantage of Expertise, yes I know you like the long recharge because of how your IAS works, so see #5 again. It takes you 7 seconds of attacking an enemy before the skill is charged, it should be dead by then.
8) Pet Damage is weak, buff it or drop it.
9) Too many High energy PvE skills,
10) Like I said, the Ranger does nothing and the pet does less, ANY proffesion can run those 3 PvE only skills on their bar, adding a slow recharging attack gimped attributes and a weak pet doesn't make it any good. Neither does adding a shield for "Survivability" you are bringing Healers AND standignway out of the way afterall.

1. You can add more damage using the optional slot.
2. I don't see any benefit or reason to use your idea of "correct" point distribution
3. You can use EBSoH however you like. The build doesn't dictate how you must use it.
4. Very little benefit from adding better BM or Expertise runes. No point in throwing away health for no good reason.
5. What is sub par about the IAS? So what if the build relies on it? It works, it is sustainable.
6. Not ignoring expertise, I am choosing a working alternative. I have tons of builds that rely on expertise and a bow.
7. My spear attack inflicts 14 secs Deep Wound, which I find very effective, especially against bosses. As for recharge - I don't find I need to re-apply Deep Wound every attack. Maybe you play in areas that have only single enemies separted by large distances. But I play where there are mobs - if a target is dead before Cruel Spear is charged, I'll use it on the next enemy. Sometimes I won't bother at all if the enemies are weak.
8. Pet is not only there for damage. Overall damage is high, so why bother?
9. There would be too many high-energy PvE skills if I wasn't able to sustain them. But I can sustain them, therefore there are not too many.
10. Yes, any profession can run those PvE skills. And a pet. And it's a blast when you get several of them in a team. The other skills are just gravy. So what? The results are great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

1) OMGHAXZORSLEETPVESKILL
2)OMGHAXZORSLEETPVESKILL
3)OMGHAXZORSLEETPVESKILL
4) RaO
5) Blazing Spear/Barbed Spear/Holy Spear
6) Otyughs Cry/Scavengers Strike
7) Comfort Pet
8) Charm Pet

13 Bm total
14 Exp total
9 spear
will require the use of something other than minor runes OHNOES!!

Free free to use the same Armor and Zealous spear if you want, I could care less.

Not the greatest, but I pulled it out of my ass sitting here, but it is certainly better that the thing you've posted, damagewise.

Aha, something constructive and sensible.

I tried it at Master of Damage. I used Holy Spear and Scavenger's strike. Optimal conditions (Everyone in the Battle Standard). I had 107 dmg/sec average after the 3 minutes. Non optimal I got 97 dmg/sec

I repeated the same test again using my build and got 106 dmg/sec after the 3 minutes (optimal, everyone in the battle standard). Non optimal I got 92 dmg/sec.

I daresay I could squeeze some more DPS out of your build with more practice. So yes, it does a bit more damage, for the price of a bit less life, less armour, no versatile party support option... and a lot more skill clicking. Pet speed boost is nice. But overall it's not exactly a dramatic improvement. Got any further ideas?

By the way, Scavenger Strike is essential for energy management in your build (can't sustain the skills without it)... but it requires you to wait until the target has a condition. Probably no problem in a party, but on my own I only had the Djinn's burning which was erratic. I could have used Barbed Spear to keep conditions on... but then I'd lose the +dmg attack and not all enemies bleed. Blazing Spear could work, but still needs some coordination with Scavenger Strike, and again - not all targets burn.

To be honest, I prefer the extra life, extra armour, ease of use, and party support of my version - my damage is "comparable" to yours, and good enough. (I would consider using otyugh's cry, scavenger strike, etc in my optional slot though). But that bit of extra damage in your version may be more important to others. Maybe it will be to me too some day - I've saved the build.

MagmaRed · Jun 05, 2009, 10:28 PM // 22:28

You admit your 1 Spear attack is used sparingly to be able to maintain the IAS. Since you have no other source of damage, and the 1 Spear attack is an elite, I'd look into a better option for that elite.

Rampage as One would provide the same IAS as Hekets, and not restrict your attack skill use. This would allow you to drop Cruel Spear and Hekets for RaO and a different attack skill like Blazing, Merciless, or maybe make use of the Expertise and use an energy attack like Slayers or Lightning. I'd also recommend dropping the points in Command/Motivation for a utility skill since your build is based on damage, not team support. If you want team support, you need a completely different build. The 8 armor you lose won't matter from your shield, but the points in Expertise could allow for more damage from attack skills.

That still leaves the optional slot open. You could run a support skill still by taking Throw Dirt to help provide protection from melee for yourself and your back line team members. Or you could toss in some buffs for the pet like Call of Protection or Otyguh's Cry. And of course you can always toss in damage from the pet as well as conditions. Skills like Predators Pounce and Scavenger Strike offer nice damage and utility both.

I'd say the build gets a 5/10 from me, but I haven't run a spear Ranger yet.

Redvex · Jun 06, 2009, 06:37 AM // 06:37

I run spear ranger ofter in RA Jade Quarry and AB.
A few time in PVE but when i run it Never Rampage Alone Must be on every bar.
Your build can work maybe in NM but in HM things are different.

Riot Narita · Jun 06, 2009, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Rampage as One would provide the same IAS as Hekets, and not restrict your attack skill use. This would allow you to drop Cruel Spear and Hekets for RaO and a different attack skill like Blazing, Merciless, or maybe make use of the Expertise and use an energy attack like Slayers or Lightning. I'd also recommend dropping the points in Command/Motivation for a utility skill since your build is based on damage, not team support. If you want team support, you need a completely different build. The 8 armor you lose won't matter from your shield, but the points in Expertise could allow for more damage from attack skills.

That still leaves the optional slot open. You could run a support skill still by taking Throw Dirt to help provide protection from melee for yourself and your back line team members. Or you could toss in some buffs for the pet like Call of Protection or Otyguh's Cry. And of course you can always toss in damage from the pet as well as conditions. Skills like Predators Pounce and Scavenger Strike offer nice damage and utility both.

I'd say the build gets a 5/10 from me, but I haven't run a spear Ranger yet.

RaO, if I still want to maintain the PvE skills as well, needs Scavenger Strike... so unless I'm mistaken, what you're suggesting is basically the same alternative build that Orange Milk posted?

I tested that (see above) and it's capable of some useful extra damage, or retaining some flexibility... but the improvement was not so great that I personally felt it was worth it.

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 06, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

R/P
Beast Mastery - 10+1
Spear Mastery - 10
Expertise- 11+2

Never Rampage Alone
Asuran Scan
Holy Spear
Spear of Redemption
Spear of Lightning
Great Dwarf Weapon
Heal as One
Charm Animal

Use with a Zealous weapon. Use for damage against most enemies that don't go down easy. for easier areas, use EBSoH instead of Asuran Scan.

This is probably one of the best damage focused Spear/Pet ranger builds I can think of. GDW is pretty good to buff pet damage and utility with knockdowns. Heal as one is obviously there for bar compression. Any build without it starts to lack in other departments. Spear elites are too high a adrenaline cost to bring, and other BM elites lack because pet AI and pet attacks suck, especially in PvE. Expertise Elites are non-relevant.

Use a shield, or focus if need be, but use it for the inherent mods, since you won't get the extra bonus for meeting the requirement.